posted this on May 10, 2012, 12:56 AM
We have several Cardo Scala Rider devices in our group (like Q2 and G4), and it would be THE selling argument for a Sena to be able to connect to devices from other brands.
I know that this is not as easy as it sounds, but it would be the killer. :)
Thank you for your suggestion. We will do the possibility of connecting SMH10 with the Cardo headset. We will keep you informed later.
I agree, would like to be able to connect to other riders in our group that use Scala units.
Count me in, love to see this function.
And another vote
It seems to me that it would be killer to have the Sena unit be the swiss army knife of bluetooth headsets.
Hopefully you could also look into pairing with the UClear units - I have several friends using UClear and being able to connect to them without re-investing in a UClear unit myself would be awesome.
It would be great to be able to connect to Scala units. The group I ride with are split between Sena and Cardio units, with a few others mixed in.
Yes, please!! :) Same here, mostly Sena and Cardo...
I have a really old Cardo Q2 that doesn't even have a 3mm input jack for an iPod, and the radio reception sucks. I'd love to upgrade to a Sena, but my riding buddies all have a Cardo. Not being able to talk to them is the only thing keeping from getting a new Sena headset.
I have recently given up on my cardo set and moved to sena but my friends still have cardos, it would be great to be able to pair up with my riding buddies. The sena seem much more user friendly and I would recommend them.
I too just switched from a Scala to the Sena. Several friends are considering the same move but are hesitant because they can not communicate with old outdated friends with inferior communication products. I hope Sena is the 1st to allow communication with other brands, many many people would join Sena if they are.
I want to buy a pair of SMH10's but cannot justify the purchase unless I can communicate with other systems including Interphone as I ride with a number of different groups.
I don't think this is a feature that will ever be seen. The major brands, whether it be Sena, Scala, Interphone, Chatterbox, etc., want you to buy their units and they want your friends to buy their units. I would guess the motivation to allow units to talk to each other, is probably less than zero from all of the major manufacturers.
I think, in the long run they will have to. If you look at markets, in the long run the best (or sadly sometimes the cheapest) product suppresses all the other products, and if you want wo survive as a company, you have to manufacture such a product or make something that is at least compatible.
So someday some company WILL come up with a headset that can at least connect to one other brand, and that will be a heavy advantage for that company, if their marketing department knows its job.
And interoperability is the next "must have" for bluetooth headsets, customers want that! And the companies in that market listen to the customers, you can see that when you look at what customers wanted in the last years. First, they wanted easy handling, they got it. It was a hell to operate the first headsets, you needed to know the exact sequences to do what you want. Now, they even talk to you... Then, they wanted range. First, you got 10 meters max, now we have one and a half kilometers. After that, conference talk. Cardo started it, now Sena and Interphone also have this feature.
Actually, people ask for interoperability, and I think, someone will listen and bring the ball to roll.
And then, every other company will have to bring out something interchangeable if they want to keep their position in the market, and they need to do so quickly.
Because of that, it would not surprise me to learn if the headset manufacturers already talked about a common protocol, or at the very least are secretly researching ways to do it.
It is very necessary! In Russia a lot of the Scala Rider. Gradually, all would go over to the Sena!
It will be a great feature for Russian market - most of riders use scala here, but it's price is too high for the same amount of features and quality.
Riders, we are testing to intercom with other brands currently, and this function will be applied on future SMH10 firmware.
Thank you for your patients.
SUPER! In Russia will be a big increase in sales! I already posted the news on the main site kvadrotsiklisty Russia. This was the main question!
Awesome news, thanks Sena!
Cool, thank you! :)
My wife and I are a Scala G4 owners, but she's got the Bell Mag 9 helmet which integrates with the Sena seamlessly and we would prefer to have the seamless employ vs a Scala add-on for helmets. But I don't have a Bell Mag 9 at this point and my Scala won't be able to communicate with her Sena (if we got her one). If Sena could hook up to Scala - I would definitely buy a Sena immediately.
Excellent News, I appreciate Sena continuing to improve the function and value of their products after purchase. That generate enormous loyalty. Thanks!
Agree, awesome news... But please hurry up ;-)
Waiting patiently for this SW update to the SMH10R before I purchase. Need to pair it with my wife's Schuberth SRC-S.
What a huge feature that would be! I can't imagine why connecting with a competing brand (Scala) would be a bad thing for Sena. Being able to communicate with riders with other headsets would definitely make Sena the leader in the field. I guarantee that when searching for a new Bluetooth headset, ability to communicate with Scala would convince me to buy Sena.
So I read a little farther down and see that they're onto it! That's great news. I'll be ordering a new Sena next week. I was hesitating because of so many of my friends that have Scala.
It would be nice quick! And that is written almost a year "planned"
Has this been resolved yet? I am looking to buy and need it to link with a Scala Cardo Q2
Dave, nothing in the release notes for the current versions specify being able to communicate with other manufacturer's units. I've been waiting a long time for this as well. 14 months of testing seems like a long time to not have an answer yet, so it may never come.
Could we please have some status on this capability.
It would be outstanding if the competing companies could establish a basic communication standard so each manufacturer could concentrate on features, ease of use, and durability to attract customers. With the several standards, one currently has to choose what their riding buddies happen to have (whether they like it or not). I hope Sena stands in a leadership position on this.
Ninety days ago we were told that this functionality was "in test" and would be applied in "future firmware". I know how product testing goes and that most likely this has to get FCC certification but ninety days? Well, I hope we hear something soon. Riding season is in full swing.
Any word on this? Surely Sena would only benefit from this as a feature, why would anyone buy anything different?
Also if you are getting close to this as a breakthrough, please add it to the SMH-10R firmware as well!
Any word on this yet?
So we have all been making encouraging remarks for over a year now, patiently hoping Sena will respond or surprise us with a solution. But one has to wonder, is this something they really want to solve, or after careful consideration has the accounting department of Sena come to the conclusion that opening up to other brands will not increase purchases of the Sena products, but perhaps allow consumers to purchase other brands. I hope I am wrong in this, but if I am wrong why has Sena not given us a single update in 16 months. (their last response was 5/10/2012) and if you re-read their last response "Thank you for your suggestion. We will do the possibility of connecting SMH10 with the Cardo headset. We will keep you informed later." it is starting to sound like a response from a company that is unsure where they want to go with it. Don't get me wrong, I own a pair of SMH10s and I have converted one fellow rider to the SMH10; still working on the other friends...But wait, is that exactly what Sena is hoping for???
I think one thing that is forgotten in the process of compatibility between various models, is that it requires a dance partner, or in the case of all of these different brands, multiple partners. Sena can say they want to investigate compatibility between multiple brands, but if Scala, Blue Ant, Interphone, Blinc, etc. aren't willing to play as well, I believe it's a no go. Takes two to tango.
It's a shame. One of my HOG chapter groups has 40 Road Captains. There is talk about going Bluetooth instead of CB for leader to tail gunner communications. CB stinks, with it's interference, bad audio quality, simplex operation, etc.). They'd make the switch in a New York second if the two major brands were compatible. I hope they're working on it. So many of my friends have Scala; and since I can't hear them, they talk about me when I'm on rides with 'em. (Just kidding)
Sena has to understand that we buy the sena brand for it's quality and it has to be compatible with others. it is like when you buy a television, you buy it becoause you like it but all the brands can see the same chanels. regards.
Francisco, unfortunately the television analogy is really not a very good one. These are not televisions. They do require pairing with individual headsets that you allow to be paired, and use a challenge/response system to make sure that your communications are not received by everyone with a headset.
Devices can be built using universally accepted standards for communications, but they don't have to be, and none of the intercom manufacturers currently do, for the intercom functions. As I mentioned above, it requires 2 to Tango, just to get 2 brands to work with each other. More dance partners for every brand to work together.
Sena can say they want their headset to work with every other brand, but it's not just that simple. Scala, Chatterbox, BlueAnt, Interphone, Blinc, etc. also have to make their headsets compatible with Sena.
How many of the people getting on Sena about interoperability have also contacted Scala Scala, Chatterbox, BlueAnt, Interphone, Blinc, etc., and have also gotten on them about producing headsets compatible with Scala?
Can anyone name another brand of bluetooth headset that is compatible with every other brand? Scala? No, Chatterbox? No, BlueAnt? No, Interphone? No, Blinc? No
Others have to step up and play as well, before interoperability between brands becomes a reality. Call or write to them all, maybe they will eventually get it.
thanks for the answer. i like Sena because its quality, so the conectivity will be a plus, i will stay with sena.
Sena, Are you able to provide an estimate as to when this firmware update will be available? At the moment, I cannot talk to my best friend while riding because he has Scala headsets. I'd rather not sell mine and buy a set of those.
I totally support this idea!!
Very disappointing that SENA has not been able to deliver on what we were led to believe was going to happen -- in a reasonable time frame. Tech Support's level of credibility has diminished greatly in my eyes.
Could be worse. Cardo has left it's users hanging for more than a year. People with iPhones can't hang up on calls without turning the cardo system off completely.
Sena, if you think this is possible let us know and if not let us know in order to have an answers. there is nothing wrong saying what can and cant be done. thanks.
The issue seriously delayed
I think this would help Sena more than hurt. I have tried Sena and Scala and the jog dial is a simplistic design that gives it the edge. So I think if Sena continues to make simple and innovative products it will keep them ahead of the competition. I am keeping one Scala in case I ride with someone that uses Scala. Otherwise, if Sena paired with Scala I would sell the Scala and buy another Sena.
I bought Sena dual smh10 units. Very happy with them. My wife doesn't like helmet music so that wasn't a problem. I upgraded her helmet to the Bell Mag9 Sena and imagine my surprise when the headset wouldn't fit! I now have to buy another clamp set which is purchased from Bell to allow the Sena to fit. Nobody told me about that.
For whatever it's worth,
At the Progressive motorcycle show today in Dallas, the Scala representative told me that Sena will be compatible very soon. He thought that maybe even by the first of the year. Now, remember . . . he's not a Sena rep, so he may not know any more than we know. But apparently, the word is out to Scala that the compatibility is coming.
I just bought a Sena set at the UK Bike show yesterday. The rep there had just been to the dealer conference and confirmed they were working on the compatibility with other BT headsets. Availability is looking at next year via a firmware upgrade...
Just wondering if there are any updates on this -- Last update I heard was back in late Nov/Dec when it was announced this should be coming by the new year. Given it is almost March, I'm wondering if this is still in the pipeline or not (although I notice the S20 does list universal intercom on its specs, so I'm still hopeful this trickles down to the other/existing models as well).
Sena announced this capability late last year as Universal Intercom™ and that it would be a feature on all of their devices; including current (software upgradable) devices. So, they are now publicly branding the capability and we'll see it .....sometime.
It looks like this is finally becoming a reality with V5.0 firmware upgrade for the Sena SMH10. You can download the UserGuide for V5.0 and see that on page 33 (Section 17) it talks about "Universal Intercom". I really like the way they integrated this from reading the instructions. They did a great job and let's hope it works as good as it sounds. - http://senabluetooth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/UsersGuide_Sena...
I actually just checked the downloads and as of yesterday, the V5.0 software is out there for the SMH10 - http://senabluetooth.com/software/smh10-firmware-5-0/
I've been under the assumption that firmware for SMH-10 and the 10R were the same, that the difference is the form factor. I'm really anxious to upgrade to V5.0. But can I use the new V5.0 firmware that came out yesterday or do I have to wait for 10R-specific update.
Universal Intercom and Sidetone are extremely important to me.
Ken, I don't know if truly anyone could answer that except a Sena engineer that is familiar with the hardware. Even if they are functionally similar, slight differences in hardware or specs between the 2 units could mean that a firmware update for the SMH10 might "brick" the SMH10R.
If they were the same, it wouldn't make sense why Sena wouldn't release both firmware updates at the same time? My best guess is there's enough slight differences to warrant a different Firmware update for the SMH10R.
Thanks, Dan. Since posting, I've gone to the software upgrades page and see that the 10R's latest firmware upgrade was back in November. (I didn't know it was out back then and have never upgraded my 10R. So, I'll wait to see what comes out.
Count me in!As mentioned before, being able to universally connect to other manufacturer's intercoms would make a unique selling point for Sena (whatever type).BTW: as of this moment no software download is possible!?
Cory, see my comment above. The Universal Intercom is now possible with firmware V5.0 for the SMH10 - http://senabluetooth.com/software/smh10-firmware-5-0/
Has anyone tested the v5.0 firmware w/ Universal Intercom (on SMH10) with a Scala Q2 yet? I was unable to get mine to pair.
Kc0jov. Were you using the correct pairing method for each? For the Sena, you need to use the new Universal Intercom pairing method outlined on page 33 under section 17. For the Scala Q2, you need to use the phone pairing method.
For the Sena: Press and hold the Jog Dial on the SMH10 for 8 seconds until the blue LED flashes rapidly
For the Q2: With the scala rider Q2 headset turned ON, press and hold the CTRL Button for at least six seconds until the Red and Blue Lights begin rapidly alternating.
@Dan_Heming: I'm going to try again when I get home tonight. I have a Plantronics Voyager headset here in the office, and was able to get that to pair successfully today.I'll update my findings later tonight/tomorrow.
I have a Scala Q3 headset to sr10 and UHF which doesnt work as others have experienced here. So my request is to look at this by Sena and look at upgrading software for the SR10. It is a pity a good system has to be altered because another company cant be bothered. They still advertise as being a market leader. I should throw them away and pay for the Sena gear
Wombat from Western Australia
@Dan_Heming: I was able to get the Q2 to pair to the SMH10 yesterday (not sure why it didn't work the first time, as the procedure was the same).
Thanks for adding the cross-compatibility Sena!!
Has anyone been able to pair the SMH-10 with the SCALA G4? I have been trying and have been unsuccessful. I first put the SMH-10 into "Universal Pairing" mode then with the G4 turned on I pressed and held in the channel "A" until it started flashing "RED"(I also tried channel "B" the same way). Do I need to scratch that pairing step on the G4 and perhaps use the phone pairing or maybe GPS pairing method? NOE: SMH-10 is at software version 5.0 and G4 is at 3.1
@Brookmarsh, I don't work for Sena, but I'm curious what you are running into with the SR10 that isn't working? You mention UHF? Do you have the SR10 hooked up to a ham radio or some other 2 way UHF radio? It is one of their pre-wired cords or did you have to make your own?
I have the Sena SMH10 + Sena SR10 hard wired to the Yaesu FTM-10SR (custom cable). I'm able to talk over VHF/UHF no problem with this setup?
I am running a Sena SR10 connected to a Uniden UH7700 UHF radio. Made my own lead from standard 6 Pin connection to SR10 and bare 4 wires into rj45 Plug. I patched a connecting wire inside the UHF to enable the speaker to go through the front connector instead of an external speaker connection. The problem occurs with the Cardo Q3 transmitting to the Sr10. I have tried two unifones and they work perfctly and I assume the SHM10 would also work both being Sena. The transmitted signal from my unit has a loud hum and voice level is inaudible. It almost appears to be slightly off frequency. I will try a reset over the weekend and fault reset to see if that works but I am not hopeful. The receiving signal to the Q3 headset is normal. I ride a Honda ST1100 long distance and in groups so communication is often via UHF particularly with road transport carriers. We have a lot of open space in Western Australia! The Cardo headsets were a present last year and I am hesitant in throwing them away however with the new Universal headset arrangement I will only need to purchase one Sena sMH10 and hopefully that will pair to my Cardo on two up ridiing.
Regards from the wild west
Brookmarsh, That is interesting you get the hum. I don't know if there is really anything Sena could do on their end since you even said you tried two unifones an they worked fine. I actually had the Cardo Scala Q2 when I first got my SR10 and used that originally with no issues. When Sena introduced the 2 HFP connections on their SMH10's though, that made it worth it to me to swap because I could then keep the SR10 connected via the Multi-point connection and my cell phone & music connected via the main connection. I can even pair my 2nd cell phone to the SR10.
So it does sound like its a Q3 issue or just something strange and maybe a reset on both devices might work? Good luck!
The Scala G4 needs to be put into phone pairing mode as the G4 will communicate with the SMH10 as a phone rather than a headset.
Does SMH10 with latest firmware version can handle conference with 3 Scala Rider G4/Q3?
Can I initiate call to G4/Q3 using SMH10 and from G4/Q3 to SMH10? Is it working both ways including conference call?
The Universal Intercom pairing on the SMH10 is only limited to 1 non-Sena headset. More information about Universal Intercom pairing for the SMH10 can be found here: http://senabluetooth.com/universal_intercom/
@cooney: Here is an instructional video that we have made on how to pair the SMH10 with the v5.0 firmware to a non-Sena headset. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1DkC2e378s For more intormation about the Universal Intercom feature you can check out the v5.0 User's Guide for the SMH10 here http://senabluetooth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/UsersGuide_Sena....
I hope this helps someone. I just paired a Scala Q2 with the Sena after several failed attempts.
The key is to hold the jog dial button an extra second or 2 after it goes into normal pairing mode, then you will hear the word "Universal" followed by pairing dialogue.
It's easy to make the mistake of letting go of the jog dial button too early when it says pairing and the lights are flashing.
It did not tell me it was sucessful but it happend withing a few seconds. Then I had to initiate a call via the jog dial button.
By the way, thank you Sena!
I'm so glad this feature works, I can now pair with a buddy coming to town for a 1200 mile ride in June. I really didn't want to have to use my Scala Q2 with push buttons. What were they thinking with those tiny buttons to be used with a motorcyclist with gloves on?
You had to have the Scala in Phone Pairing mode correct? Which would seem to indicate that if the Scala already was paired with a mobile phone, it would now lose that pairing in favor of the Sena UC. Is that what you have seen?
@Drtbyk. Yes the Scala has to be in pairing mode as well. I can't answer the phone question because I didn't pay any attention to what happened there.
I was just going by the SENA instructions for v5 which would indicate that the "other" Comm Device would lose it's Phone Pairing if it already had it.
@Drtbyk: If the non-Sena headset supports Mulitpoint pairing (a second Handsfree Profile) similar to all Sena headsets then the non-Sena headset would be using that when paired to a Sena headset. This means that the non-Sena headset would still stayed paired with already paired mobile phone.
I was able to get the Scala G4 to pair with the Sena SMH10 by putting the G4 in to Phone pairing and the Sena in to Universal but they don't seem to allow you to talk. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong or what I need to do?
Chris, If it's like the 2 devices I paired you then have to make an intercom call from one to another. Just like when intercom connecting two Sena devices, press that jog dial button once to start the connection. If that doesn't do it then I don't know.
Chris when I paired the SMH-10 to the SCALA G4 (also tried a Q3) I put the SCALA into "Phone Pairing" and the SMH-10 into "Universal Pairing". The SMH-10 begins to make the audible chime stating it is trying to pair to another device. I then tapped the "jog dial" button and that completed the pairing process and I was able to communicate between SMH-10 and SCALA.
Hey thanks for the quick response on this guys, I seem to have them paired but when i push wither to establish the connection i get nothing.
I pushed the Sena twice since it was paired after the other Sena unit I have and enven tried to get the G4 to link and no go. The Sena is also paired with a Navigator V if that matters...
Do you know for sure the SMH10 is paired with the G4? For the heck of it do you have anything you can intercom test the SMH10 with post (after) the software update?
Chris there is a limitation with the SENA only being able to pair with 1 universal device. If you already have the SENA paired to the Navigator you will have to unpair with that before trying to pair with the SCALA. The other thing to keep in mind, anytime you do any firmware updates a good practice is to perform a factory reset as well as remove all pairings (if the Factory Reset did not do this). Once that is complete then repair your devices. In your case you may want to go ahead and try that for starters. I myself was seeing some quirky things between devices until I removed all pairings. You can actually do this through the SMH-10 device itself by holding in the job dial button for 12 seconds until you hear the voice prompt stating "Configuration Menu" then roll the job dial through the menu options until you hear, "Delete All Pairings" tap the phone button to confirm(jog dial button is not enabled for this setting)
Paired with a Scala this evening (from my SMH-10R) It worked just fine. The audio was kind of scratchy, but don't think it had anything to do with the pairing. I usually use earbuds, but this time the helmet speakers.
But wanted to report that it worked first try. On his Scala, he was able to continue to be paired and connected to his iPhone while being connected to my Universal Pairing.
Thank you, Sena.
@ Chris. As Chris W stated (and I should have caught this) only 1 universal pairing device allowed. A Sena paired to any other non-Sena is counted as 1 and if you want to pair it with another non-Sena then you have to delete the first one.
If a Sena is paired with a Scala . . . and the Scala is paired with other Scalas in a group, Can the Sena user communicate with the other Scalas?
Ken, LOL, pairing through association huh? Nice! My thought are that the only thing that can talk to the Sena is what is paired directly to it. (But I don't work for Sena and I'm no authority on this).
No, it is not possible since it will be paired as a phone device (in scala) and Scala doesn't allow you to use phone and intercom at the same time.
Universal Pairing is awesome but it doesn't solve the entire problem mixing Sena and Scala.
It uses mobile phone channel in Scala Rider G4/G9/G9X and it doesn't allows you to use Scala's channels A and B at the same time. Would be really nice a way to pairing a Sena intercom with Scala using channels A and B.
It would be a killer feature.
You sure? I don't have one to test it myself, but the Cardo Scala Rider G9 (so the G9X will have it too, I think) manual says in chapter 7.1b:
INTERCOM CONFERENCE MODEAdd/Remove Channel “A” by tapping “A” while on a phone call to/from a callAdd/Remove Channel “B” by tapping “B” while on a phone call to/from a call
which sounds to me like they actually *can* connect a Cardo device to a phonecall (and thereby to a Sena) :)
Maybe you can't alternate different brands in a group, but linking a Sena-group to a Cardo-group seems possible... Anyone tried it?
"If a Sena is paired with a Scala . . . and the Scala is paired with other Scalas in a group, Can the Sena user communicate with the other Scalas?"
Stephen Seitz is correct. If a non-Sena headset has the "Three-Way Conference Phone Call with Intercom Participant" feature that all Sena headsets have then they can use Universal Intercom to pair to the non-Sena headset and include other paired non-Sena headsets into the "phone call" with the Sena headset.
I have the Sena SMH10 and my friend has a chatter box. would he be able to switch from intercom with me to his music? or would he be stuck on the phone/intercom with me?
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